MEG O'BRIEN THE ORTHODOX JEW? OY VEY?
I'm a very fly by night soul. Don't get me on a schedule or a commitment or "journey" not on anyone that's already trekked out one anyway. I'm quite frankly a "little odd", I've always been "a little odd" so I'm used to it and, well my friends are used to it too.
I don't have a house in the hills anymore. I can't afford a full-time housekeeper. I moved into an apartment with a roomie I love! It's ALL GONE! I'VE NEVER FELT BETTER!!
The freedom and fear of just being for yourself is crazy. I mean, I love just having me! But as life throws you a loop, I love me even more when I'm with Ken. I was only single for 7 or 8 months and then I met the most amazing man that I'm broken up with that loves me more then anything. How's that for Hollywood!!
I'm not Jewish and Ken's parents (I LOVE HIS MOM BEV) are Super Jews (sorry if you take offense-it's true. If Jewish Crime Fighters got capes then Ken's parent's would be kicking out electricity on Chabbat!)
They are smashing the heads of those that dare mix meat and milk. OY if they'd find out if you had sex on your period (they had me here, agreeance- totally-yuck) you have to go dip! Dip away!
So, I'm me. I've never really been able to adhere to any rules. I mean, my parents just totally gave up. They'd open my bedroom door and say for school~"For the love of God, get up! Are you going?" I'd say "No" and they'd slam the door.
I'm pretty great at talking myself out of any situation. I couldn't talk my way around this one. Not to be too religious, but come on, my name is Megan O'Brien. Here's a bit on my classes that I did one on one with Ken's mom, amazing, yet at this task-poor Beverly.
Beverly: You have to give up Jesus as your savior.
Meg: Fine, can he be my good friend? God scares me. He's a little harsh. Jesus hangs out with robbers, and hookers and lost souls and is always turning water into wine. I feel like he'd give me a pass and put in a good word to God to me. Do we have to give him up? Can we use him as a mediator?
Beverly: No
I'm starting to internally panic here but I keep the strong upper lip because I do love Ken (and Jesus hangs with robbers and hookers so I know he'll forgive me.) so I say...
Meg: Fine
It's so much more then that. I've never been in a situation I couldn't BS myself out of, I couldn't BS myself into Orthodox Judaism. Seriously, from the queen of BS that's saying something.
I really do love Ken and I did try, I went to Purim, I thought those Jews hadn't eaten in days. We all booed at stuff and I saw people wear all these fun costumes...The pizza came out and there was a rush like I've never seen. I was seriously bruised trying to get a damn piece of pizza. That was where the difference lied I'm not Jewish, no one has been trying to kill off my people. I'm very sorry if this offends but it is my truth. I don't know what happened to me, the contusion to my head, the elbow to my back...WE WERE NOT IN WARSAW POLAND! WE WERE IN BRENTWOOD!!
I gave up! I took the wine (why don't Jewish people drink~I totally read my Jewish book, the Torah says 4 glasses-Jews take note!) and I chugged a glass.
I was still OPEN MINDED even though I nearly died at Purim
After Purim came Passover, oh G_D you don't even want me to touch that. I will at a later date it's hysterical.
So, yeah, the Jews outed me. They can smell a gentile a mile away! We're the ones at Purin saying "Oh, please, go ahead" Joke~but only sort of Jesus H. Christ, what a mob scene. I've never seen such starvation on Stuart Weitzman Heels. This is a generalization and if you want to send me hate mail then save your time. It's what happened. Deal.
So I'm O.K-because you know what really matters. Ken saw me frustrated at the pizza table, he saw me give up and sit at our little round table. He brought me some pizza, and he fought for it.
He did it for me and at that moment it didn't matter what G_d I prayed to. I was just a little hungry and he loves me.
I know I'll never win his parent's approval or be Jewish enough.
Anyone else been there? Looking for some words of encouragement!
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Oh that's kind of a bummer,no one can say you didnt try ,at least you can laugh about at it all.My sister has a friend whos dad is a religious militant (practically),he once burnt cds I lent her(devils music aparently),anyway one time he banned her friends from coming to the house during her exams,so my sister rang and calmly explained that she should be allowed to see her friends because jesus had the twelve aposels and nobody banned him from seeing them,that everybody needs friends even jesus(hows that for a spin),anyway he told her how wise she is,lifted the ban and thinks the sun shines out of her to this day.Sneeky huh.
PotionPrincess♥
Oy! Meg, you don't need to be someone else and I'm elated that you remain true to what you believe. I've been the object of criticism for my faith thousands of times, and it doesn't bother me; people don't rule my life--the Lord does! Life is short, and "sleepwalking" through it without taking a stance is not for me. Ah, I could write a book here but will spare you. One of the most precious friends in my life is a rabbi. He was the chaplain at the hospital when my mom had emergency quadruple-bypass surgery and heard me crying from outside her room while she was drugged. I looked at him and asked, "Rabbi, is it okay to ask God to heal an elderly woman?" I'll never forget his answer. He asked if I was a Christian and I told him I am. Then he said gently, "For shame. You already know the answer to that." Point taken. People interpret the Lord differently. I admire Jews and love the parallels between their beliefs and ours; those with whom I am friends will actually observe the Sabbath, dress appropriately, and study God's Word (try to get some Christians to do that!). But some very Orthodox Jews still abide by ancient rules from the Old Testament and it's nearly impossible to do. We had Maine's Roman Catholic bishop speak to us at the beginning of school last year, and he said, "Please, understand. Jesus came to set us free. We don't have to try so hard, we don't have to obey hundreds of rules and make ourselves crazy for Eternal Life. If you seek God and treat others as you do yourself, you don't need to worry. The enormity and power of His death is for ALL people, not just Christians, but for Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and those of all faiths who seek to do right." I believe that. My doctor, also a friend, is Jewish. He once told me that he is very weary of wondering whether he is in The Book of Life. I laughed and said, "We'll discuss that at length when we're both in Heaven. You will be there and you'll see that I am right." Meg, I applaud you! Building a relationship by trying to be a person you are not will not work.
Potionprincess, what a sweet story! I love that.
Oy, Meg! I literally almost spit out my coffee this morning in laughter reading your story. As you know, my hubby is Jewish. Definitely not an Orthodox Jew. However, I feel an obligation to teach our son both Christian and Jewish traditions. I really want him to grow up to respect ALL religions. I feel like such a "fish out of water" trying to learn all the traditions and read/sing the songs. I am going to my first family Bar Mitzvah next weekend -- wish me luck! I know they will able to spot this "outsider" a mile away. hahha!
Oi gevalt! I'm not sure if you knew this, Meg, but I am a half-Jewish young lady myself, at least by heritage! Okay, well, technically, since it's passed down through the mother, I am fully Jewish, but I was raised as a Catholic! My mom converted shortly after I was born, but my grandmother... oi. First of all, her original name is Lois Goldberg. Secondly, this woman won the lottery and invested wisely- she's pretty "well off"! Yet she still goes to the flea market and haggles BRUTALLY over a five dollar pair of slippers! I can remember one time I was at my grandmother's house (a double-wide trailer, mind you!) and she'd just moved in. She got this BEAUTIFUL entertainment center- and then promptly informed us she was sending it back. We asked why. Her response? "The hinges are gold. It doesn't match the rest of my house!" These things were barely visible! We come back two days later, and she's put up this brass elephant she's had since I was little- and she still sent the entertainment center back! Oi vey. My nana's a character, all right!
Meg,
I don't want to receive anymore emails from you. I don't even like page six and I think you're a nasty hag. If you don't remeber who I am, you made fun of my 7 year old at my sister's wedding. Anymore emails and I'll post the nice double chin picture I have of you. Take me off your list now!!!
Ginger aka Jennifer
With comments like those, Ginger might as well wear a t-shirt that says "I'm jealous of Meg". Girl, you're like school in the summer...no class. Meg, sorry you had to read that crap on an already bad week.Love,Indi
Indi
Hi Meg 'To thine own self be true'.How does Ken feel about religion, I wonder? Is it all up to his family, and he doesn't feel quite the same, or is he very Orthodox too? I know someone who married a Muslim who came from a very traditional family. At first there was friction - she flat out refused to be a Muslim, but she agreed to honor his family and religion. He still prays like 5 times a day and only eats halaal, while she's making bacon and eggs to wash down with milky coffee.She and his family reached a truce - his mother knew her son was utterly miserable without her, and decided to make her peace with their union. 10 years on, and they are still going strong. I suspect the fact that neither wanted children, also helped.Now if a white Protestant Afrikaans girl who won't give an inch on her beliefs (and whose family was very iffy on both the race and religious cards) can get it right with a devout Muslim, there must be a possibility that these unions can work, even if the probabilities are low.
Gigi said : 'If you seek God and treat others as you do yourself, you don't need to worry. The enormity and power of His death is for ALL people, not just Christians, but for Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and those of all faiths who seek to do right." I believe that.'I am so touched by these words. Because of my ancestry, I have Protestant, Catholic, Jewish (my Grandfather escaped Germany with the aid of one of his professors in Germany - and yes some of our relatives did die in the camps), and Muslim blood. How's that to make someone Orthodox's head spin? I'm not religious, although I still go to Mass occasionally, but the Truth of the Teachings of Jesus are what I live by. I think how you treat other people is a lot more important than what you believe, and ultimately what you do unto others will be the measure you are judged by, regardless of faith.Jennifer/Ginger - I'm sure you can get off the mail list without hurling insults, accusations and threats. Your comments only serve to make you look malicious, they don't reflect on Meg at all. You surely know better?
I certainly understand what you are going through, Meg. My husband of almost eleven years came from an extremely religious family(Christian). I do not. He and his family lived a hardcore missionary life overseas. His dad is a minister. There whole life is devoted to religion even at the expense of their family at times. It has been a rocky road to say the least. Before we got married his parents even told my parents that they thought that it was a bit of a mistake for us to be together. That was rough to hear. But through it all I have been very respectful of their religious choices and belief system. I remain inquisitive and thoughtful about the whole process. I learn what I can and I ask questions. This is the very best that you can do. And while you may not completely quell Ken's parents' religious anxieties I am sure that your charm and personality has already convinced them that you are a good enough and worthy person for their son. If you and Ken are meant to be together, you will be despite these difficult obstacles. He seems like a really decent person. I am almost positive that he is already able to go beyond your lack of Jewishness. My husband and I have simply found a comfortable medium for our religious differences. We learn from each other. It eventually works itself all out. I applaud you for the interest you have taken in his religion. This is obvious proof that you respect and care about their religious beliefs. I am positive that they appreciate this. If you are meant to be, don't throw it all away over this. You can make it past this and find a happy and comfortable relationship with his parents about religion. I have.
Religion does often play a large part in a marriage. When I was married the first time; my then fiancé’ was Presbyterian and I was a full blown Catholic. You definitely fall in love with who you fall in love with! It’s pretty much NEVER about two people meeting and falling in love because of their faith. The catholic church was extraordinarily strict back in the 70’s and frowned on marrying anyone who wasn’t a Catholic! But we wanted to get married anyway because, after all, we were in love! I had to get a special dispensation from our church to marry him IN the Catholic church but we did it! I will pause here to say that just before that I wanted to be a bridesmaid in a good friend’s wedding who wasn’t Catholic and my church said “Absolutely NOT!” It would be a sin! It was forbidden back then! So I wasn’t in her wedding. After we were married, religion was a problem. He wouldn’t go to my church because he said “It’s insane to think that your church thinks one man (the Pope) is infallible and what he says is law!” He absolutely could not wrap his head around that. I couldn’t go to his Presbyterian church because my Catholic church would consider that a SIN! Better to not attend church at all then to go to another denomination’s church! So, he went to his church and I went to mine on Sundays. Then we had children and we wanted to raise them with some type of faith. So….we went church shopping! Yes we did! Every Sunday we went to a different denomination of religion and then would discuss what we felt after the church services. You are probably wondering how I had the guts to church shop if I knew it was a sin! Well, my then husband said something to me that I will never forget. My former husband had a grandmother who was very old and very wonderful. I had absolutely no experiences with my own grandparents (they all died when I was young) and I fell in love with his grandmother. I just adored her. When she died I was heartbroken and my husband looked at me and said “Do you think, because my grandmother was not Catholic that she has gone straight to hell?” In that moment, I realized that I could change my religion. I knew God would take her right to Heaven! We didn’t agree on any church for months until one Sunday we went to a Lutheran Church. I discovered they believed in similar ways to the Catholic church (without the damnation factor) and my then husband said it was close to his Presbyterian church too. We did join that Lutheran Church but it took me 6 MONTHS of weekly appointments with one of the Pastors there to be able to BELIEVE I wouldn’t be damned and go to straight to Hell for switching my church and belief system! That was really really HARD! On the other hand it was like a breath of fresh air to not worry every single day that I would go straight to Hell because I ate meat on a Friday in Lent or didn’t go to confession etc. etc. Back then, my Catholic church upbringing me had me SO afraid that when I’d walk home from school every day I was terrified of getting hit by a car because IF a priest didn’t happen along to see me lying in the street and hear my last confession I was going to go to hell! I didn’t want that fear based religion for my children. In the end we raised our children in the Lutheran church we had found and liked and they both seemed to really like it and were heavily involved in the Church camps. Since then my son married a woman who wasn’t raised in any religion and doesn’t believe in anything and my daughter spent a lot of time in India and later married a man who also spent a lot of time in India and she has a completely different religious belief system now too! As difficult as the religious factor was back then; what was important was that we were together. It’s hard for parents, especially if they are deeply instilled in their religion not to worry about their children if they are in love with someone of a different faith. I think it is up to the couple to make the marriage work. If they are willing to be together and can remain having a positive relationship while accepting that each of them has a different belief system it can work but it also IS a challenge, especially if there are outside factors constantly weighing on you and letting you know they are never going to be a fan of your decision. I learned for myself that if you interfere or show disdain to your children for picking a mate who’s faith is questionable to you personally; it will just end up putting you in a more distant place from your child, the child you want to never lose your connection with! I view it that IF I see that my child is happy, REALLY happy in his or her relationship, that’s what matters to me.
Jeanasina!
Where does Ken stand on all of this? It seems like the two of you have some tricky conversations ahead of you. In my humble opinion, absolute honesty now is the only way. Somehow, this situation has managed to become painfully complicated, yet terribly simple and straightforward all at the same time. My heart breaks for the two of you. I love you both, Dawn
Meg, you have an AMAZING soul and it just doesn't beat to the beat of your own drum, it has it's own marching band. First off I believe you can become "Jewish enough", my parents love you and I am willing to help you every step of the way. However, you have to stop with Holocaust reference like what happened in Poland for comedic purposes. That is a quick way to get kicked out of the tribe. Judaism is a system of laws, statements and commandments called the mitzvoth. Marriage is an institution that has certain commitments as well. I plan on using the Jewish laws of marriage to structure my partnership and the ceremony. You are right when you say, "I've never really been able to adhere to any rules." This is kind of a problem when it comes to a tradition where you are commanded to adhere to 613 laws. Although, I don't follow all of them there are certain ones that I will do for my whole life. Yes, Meg, I know the best thing in the world is a honey-baked ham, but I accept that I will never ever eat it. Don't you want to be with someone who can show that type of commitment? As my life continues, I hope to hold to more. You are a good person and instinctively you follow a few of them like not murdering people, I won't mention the snowman you killed with a Ginsu Knife. I want to form a unity that facilitates a connection. It is a framework for marriage and it provides sanctity for what should be a holy union. I follow them for many personal reasons not because my parents want me to do them but among other reasons like my forefathers have done them for thousands of years and it is how I chose to explore my own connection. You know how committed I am to some of the laws especially during Passover. When I am married, I want a home not only where candles are lit for Shabbat and a Mezuzah is on all the appropriate doors, but that is filled with this spiritual connection. It comes down to following the commandments. I was upfront with you from the very beginning that I would only marry you if you were Jewish. I know it is a lot to ask but so is spending the rest of your life with each other. I have nothing against a belief in Jesus, after all he is one of our tribe and followed many of the same mitzvoth and if a non-Jew is following his true message they are doing the moral thing. Just as Jews we are still waiting for the Messiah who fulfills our requirements of the Torah. I don't look at any options outside of orthodox conversion for someone with whom I would spend the rest of my life. I know if the day came when you went before the Beit-din for your conversion it would be the most secure foundation for a marriage. Nothing against reform or conservative but it is not accepted by all the Jews and not what I would want from the person I fully commit to. Love,Megken
Meg, you look absolutely gorgeous in that picture.
Anyway, I agree with everything Gigi said a thousand times over... I find it amazing that you are staying true to who you are. I think you are both wonderful people but you should never change any part of who you are for anyone, and I'm so glad to see you recognize that. It saddens me when I see so many people (especially women) try to change who or what they are for another person. I admire you more than words can express right now.And I am so in love with what you said! "God scares me. He's a little harsh. Jesus hangs out with robbers, and hookers and lost souls and is always turning water into wine. I feel like he'd give me a pass and put in a good word to God to me. Do we have to give him up? Can we use him as a mediator?" I feel the same way and I love how you put it. Whenever I feel like crap about myself and that God should just strike me down for how awful I've been, I think about how Jesus loved people that were just as bad as me, and he is my mediator.I know that there are a million religions out there. I know plenty of people won't agree with my beliefs, and I'll disagree with theirs, but there is nothing worse than when people attack other people over religion. What really matters is love, loving ourselves and the world, regardless of our differences in opinion. Spiritual beliefs are such a core part of a person that differences in that area may be almost impossible to overcome unless an understanding (such as "agree to disagree") can be reached, which isn't be easy and sometimes isn't even an option. So I know you will make the right choices, whatever they are, and that you will make it through this. Anway, sorry about my babbling, but I want you to know that you are such an amazing women. Don't forget that. The way you so honestly put yourself out there - it doesn't suprise me that you have so many women here, including myself, who love and support you.
I'm reading and considering,think I mentioned to you that I "began the process" on converting when I was much younger.I didn't have the support of his family however and the problems would have been many outside of fundamental beliefs.You do love Ken and his post above is heartfelt and very telling: he's a man of strong convictions which also tells me he would be a "life partner" to the right person as well because of them,that's a rare and admirable degree of loyalty.I value loyalty as I do love in the long haul!You know that I am firm in my belief that you should never,ever,sell out.However,love is also to many extents about compromise as well,sometimes it just takes longer to realize what one's limitations within the relationship might be.You have been together a short and no doubt passionate time and perhaps the other parts of the relationship that might allow both of you to make such a life-changing decision haven't yet had enough time to blossom?Maybe just more time talking and really getting to the core of whether or not this choice could possibly work for you...I've known some insanely irreverent and delightful Jewish women and honestly,they are a breed unto themselves...I think many struggle a bit to keep that delicate balance in their lives.Youd' fit in perfectly,LOL!I will add that on a personal level,my Mom is one of THE most devout Catholics out there,I am lapsed with no intention of returning,I am spiritual at this point in my life,period.At times of darkness and pain in our family she is the "rock" that gives us all strength by the mere power of her faith,traditions,and convictions...to be able to have those beliefs and then to share them is very special indeed and the "older" I get,the more I appreciate the traditions that bind (and choke sometimes,LOL!)a family because the world might be in flux and you know,without a shadow of a doubt,where you stand with her...that would probably be the case with Ken's family as well and it would be a wonderful thing to have in one's life: that un-conditional love and support of a faith based community in tough and joyful times.You WILL do what is best for you and I do not believe you'd ever,ever, stop being the delightful and unique woman you are no matter what "building" you go to for Holidays!You are respected and loved and I am confident you will prevail feeling confident one way or another with a bit more time,patience,and love. :)
Meg and Ken, I'm still hoping there's a way for you two to work things out! If you both love each other - and respect who you are - it could happen. I have no advice; I haven't really faced this situation in my life. My Mom could have been mjsred's Mom's twin! She prayed through her whole 58 years of marriage for my Dad to become Catholic. He never did, but he was the best man ever. If there is a heaven, they're both sitting up there, laughing at the rest of us. I'm not religious, although I respect others' beliefs. I just couldn't fake it though - no matter what. I hope that "love conquers all" and that you two can find the way. Love and good wishes. Carole
Carole
Ginger, are you kidding? I am generally non-combative, but Meg couldn't take better photos and would never make fun of anyone. I'm sorry, but the other women here are insightful, supportive, mature, and are able to agree to disagree without silly, schoolgirl tactics. Leave Meg and us alone, please. This is not the place for you. Your envy is indeed showing and my high school students aren't that ridiculous--deal with it! Take a lesson from her openness, honesty, generosity, and more and learn. When you do so, then return. Yes, I am a Christian, but there is such a thing as righteous anger and I'm angry!
Awwww sweetie.... I'm Jewish and proud of it however I make a point of not going super-Jew on my friends, it pisses them off. I love taking some of my non-Jewish friends to Temple because it educates them. Last year I was the only Jew in my class and, believe it or not, people said some incrediblly anti-semtistic (is that even a word?) things. More than once I was called a 'dirty Jew'
"Dirty Jew"-Yes. Totally you are filthy. Jewish people are the top Nobel Prize Winners, The founders of economics, the greatest contributors to literature (Hi! Bible)Founders of anthropology, the designers of the modern computer, leaders of entertainment and pretty much had a strong hand in every brilliant advancement our society has ever reached. Tell those morons that I wish I were so dirty!
God thats just horrible and ignorent ,just ignore them ,there only to be pitied.
PotionPrincess♥
how inspiring, and great pic :D also, i was raised as an only child, when i got my first room mate in college i absolutely loved it she is one of my besties and i lvoe having someone there to kind of lean on.
j.baby
Omg, Meg, I've soo been there. Actually, I am there.My boyfriend's parents are huge mega-Jews (lmao!). Luckily, my boyfriend is a "bad" pork eating, beer drinking on Passover, and Christmas celebrating Jew. His parents are hardcore and want to convert me, badly, but I've resisted. I'm pretty much agnostic and don't really care either way. The whole lectures about being a non-Jew were pretty harsh the first couple of months, but the longer we've been together, and after we've moved in together his parents have pretty much accepted me as me. Or maybe they've just given up and realized that I'm going to be around for awhile :P
So true and so funny! Great picture!
I've never heard of a man who converted his religion for a woman, have any of you? It's always the women.
I can't honestly believe that someone in 2009, would make someone they love change their faith. Can't we all live and let live? Surely Ken and his lovely family can have their beliefs - and you will respect them of course - and you can have yours with their equal respect? Why do we have to conform to a certain line of thinking?
THough his parents would probably flip. you can be a Jew for Jesus! : )You could just go through the motions of the tradition for him-- and it does help if you move a little ways away from them so you dont have to go to ALL of the functions...Also, it helps if you understand it: not really the traditions but the book, Just start reading it and see what you find and if you find you just cant do it, then just explain to him-- you cant do it. If he doesn't understand- then so be it, but at least he knows that you tried, they know you tried and most importantly YOU know you tried.: )Anyhow Good Luck with this! : )
This is interesting. Im not big on religion myself, but ive always respected peoples views, no matter how crazy I think they may be. And generally, ill always make an effort to try and understand...
i hope you won't have to change your religion for the sake of marriage!
xoxo
nice picture!
Aww..that was really sweet of him. (and really sweet of you to try). Lucky for me, my husband and I are both Catholics so I have never gone through this sort of thing. Although, if my hubby had been in a different religion, there would have been trouble. I remember the first time I introduced him to my grandma. She said Hi. Are you Catholic? Thats it. She didn't say "oh, it's so nice to meet you" or any other nice phrase. She was right down to business.
Wow I can see how religion can play a huge part in a relationship. I feel like as long as you believe in a higher power and your morals are good a relationship can survive it.
Does it really matter what religion someone is? If you love eachother than respecting eachothers belief's should be what counts. So you love Jesus and he doesn't. Who cares. Love is love, and life's too short.
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craziness.& you are insanely gorgeous by the way. you look stunning in that color.
You're gorgeous. And nice dress.